More on the mythical story of Thomas Pasmere Carpenter

If you reading this article, chances are you believe that you are a descendant of the great Cherokee Chief Moytoy (Trader Tom, Pigeon of Tellico, Savanah Tom, Young Rainmaker), aka Amo-adawehi. Did I leave any names out? Go to any genealogy website; Ancestry, Geni, We Relate, Wikitree and you will find a fantastical family tree for Moytoy. There are also family websites like The James Scrolls and dozens other like it that lay out this ancestry. And it's not just on the internet, there are loads of books about him and his family. There's the whole Shawnee Heritage line, and books by Rickey Butch Walker and William Reynolds.

Moytoy's ancestors have traced all the way to ancient France by way of England to a man named Thomas Pasmere Carpenter and his wife the daughter of an Indian chief and his wife who are a Powhatan/Shawnee couple. I can't quite make out how that works, but everyone on the internet agrees it's true. From this couple descends Moytoy and his large gaggle of wives and children, leading straight, presumably, to you.

Did you ever stop and ask yourself where all this information came from. How were these authors able to trace Moytoy's ancestry, how were they able to make all these connections to other contemporary Cherokee in a time when the Cherokee had no written language and all our knowledge of them comes from the writings of the English and others who came in contact with them. Let's pick some genealogies off of some websites.

The James Scrolls

Thomas Passmere Carpenter (descended from English royalty)called Cornplanter by the Shawnee

 married

Pride Chalakahatha (Chalakatha is a division of the Shawnee tribe) a Shawnee woman 

↓↓

Amatoya b. 1640 taught to witch water by his father-therefore the Cherokee called him water conjurer Ama Matai which became Amatoya then Moytoy I

married 1680

Quatsie of Tellico

↓↓

Moytoy II Chief of Tellico

Sources for the James Scrolls pedigree:  None given

_______________________________________________________________________

Geni (Stephanie Hill)

Thomas Pasmere Carpenter

married

Elizabeth Pride Chalakatha Carpenter daugher of Chief Eagle Plume Shawnee Carpenter and Matachanna Cleopatra Powhatan

↓↓

Chief Misahpelewa Big Turkey Hop Shawnee Carpenter 

married

Locha Quatsy Shawnee Tellico Wolf Clan

↓↓

Chief Moytoy Pigeon Amadohiyi Amahetai Moytoy

Sources for Geni: None

_________________________________________________________________________

random ancestry.com tree 

Thomas Pasmere Carpenter

m. 

Pride Shawnee

↓↓

TRADER Amatoya Moytoy Ama Matai CARPENTER

m.

Quatsy Woman the Wolf Nancy Tellico

↓↓

Amatoya Moytoy

Sources: Find A Grave, a 1947 marriage record in Alabama (no explanation given)

___________________________________________________________________________

Do these look familiar? In my previous blog on Thomas Pasmere Carpenter I dispelled the myth of being a part of a ship owning family from Devon. Put let's continue with the mythical story, can any of it possibly be true. The following story was taken from a Geni page for Moytoy, the son of Thomas Carpenter. 

Thomas Pasmere Carpenter at 20 years old came to Jamestown, Virginia from England in 1627. Thomas was the son of Robert Carpenter (1578-1651) and Susan Pasmere Jeffery (1579 -1651). He had a ten acre lease in Virginia, but it was later given to someone else because of his age, so he went to live with the Shawnee and made his home in a cave. Thomas was called "Cornplanter" by the Shawnee, derived from their sign language that matched as near as possible to the work of a carpenter. He married a Shawnee woman named "Pride" and bore a son around 1635 named Trader Carpenter, and a daughter Pasmere Carpenter, about 1637. Together with partners John Greenwood and Thomas Watts they began a thriving fur business.

Trader was taught to witch for water with a willow stick by the Shawnee. He was later known by the Cherokee as the "water conjurer" or Ama Matai (Ama is Cherokee for water). Ama Matai eventually became pronounced as Amatoya. It was also shortened to Moytoy, so he is known as Moytoy I.

The clan grew quickly. Trader (Amatoya / Moytoy I) married a Shawnee named Locha in 1658. Pasmere married the grandfather of Cornstalk Hokolesqua (Shawnee) in 1660. The same year the clan was driven south by the Iroquois. They moved along the Tennessee river, starting the villages of Running Water (where Thomas died in 1675), Nickajack, Lookout Mountain, Crowtown and Chota. Chota was created as a merging place of refuge for people of all tribes, history or color. It became similar to a capital for the Cherokee nation. These villages grew to about 2000 people by 1670 when the Carpenter clan moved to Great Tellico. Here Trader (Amatoya / Motoy I) married Quatsy of the Wolf Clan in 1680. They bore a daughter Nancy in 1683.

That's the most common version of the story. Let's break it down into bite size chunks and see what can be proven/disproven.  

Thomas was the son of Robert Carpenter (1578-1651) and Susan Pasmere Jeffery (1579 -1651). Fact or fiction? 

Records in England show that a man named Robert Carpenter married a woman named Susan Jeffreys. The name Pasmere is not found in any record connected with this couple. There is no child named Thomas that can be proven to be their child.  Their birth and death dates are unknown. This statement is pure Fiction.

He had a ten acre lease in Virginia, but it was later given to someone else because of his age, so he went to live with the Shawnee and made his home in a cave.

The records show that Thomas Pasmere, a carpenter, was given a land grant which he sold when he left Virginia to live in Maryland. It was not taken from him because of his age. You seriously believe that he went to live in a cave. Why? Could he not find a single person he could live with in Jamestown. Could he not work as a servant? His only recourse was to live in a cave. Ah, but he lived with the Shawnee. Did they live in caves? No they did not. If this man is so poor he has to live in a cave, why in God's name would any woman want to marry him? There are no known Shawnee groups living anywhere near Jamestown in 1627. This is pure Fiction.

He married a Shawnee woman named "Pride" and bore a son around 1635 named Trader Carpenter, and a daughter Pasmere Carpenter, about 1637. This part is pure nonsense. A Shawnee woman named Pride, come on. They have a son and the best name they can come up with is Trader. Who calls a baby Trader. Who calls a baby Pasmere? Sorry folks. Fiction.

Together with partners John Greenwood and Thomas Watts they began a thriving fur business.

If Thomas Pasmere ran a thriving fur business then his name would be recorded somewhere in the colonial records, but there is nothing. This is a fictional story from the fraudulent Shawnee Heritage books. There was a well known fur trapper named John Greenwood, but he was from a later time and trapped in California. Fiction

Trader was taught to witch for water with a willow stick by the Shawnee. 

Water Witching or dousing is of European (German) origin beginning in the 1500s. This 'art' was not  know or practiced by the Shawnee or any other Native American tribe. Total Fiction

The same year the clan was driven south by the Iroquois. They moved along the Tennessee river, starting the villages of Running Water (where Thomas died in 1675), Nickajack, Lookout Mountain, Crowtown and Chota. 

This is an easy one to disprove. Running Water, Nickajack, Lookout Mountain and Crowtown were towns established in 1779 by the Chickamauga Cherokee lead by Dragging Canoe. These towns are in Western Tennessee and Northern Alabama. They did not exist in 1675 when Thomas Carpenter and his supposed clan existed. Chota was a Cherokee town, founded by Cherokee, inhabited by Cherokee. Fiction.

It amazes me that anyone believes this story. It is so easy to disprove. The story of Thomas Pasmere Carpenter is nothing but a myth. A myth created in the age of the internet for people who are too lazy to do a little research.


The ship owning Carpenter family, really?